Great Sherdog Debate: Liddell-Jackson II
It's been a few months since the last time this almost mythical
piece of Sherdog goodness came to our readers, and for good
reason.
GSD newcomer Mike Fridley shockingly upended Mike Sloan, the all-time wins king of the Great Sherdog Debate. Sloan gave Randy Couture (Pictures) a zero percent chance of beating then-champion Tim Sylvia (Pictures) for the heavyweight crown, and basically goaded Sherdog.com's managing editor into a scuffle. Sloan and Sylvia lost and Fridley walked home with the debate crown.
Mike Sloan: Well, if I must say
something to kick off this debate, it's "ouch!" Where did that come
from? I thought Couture was too small, too old and too war-torn to
win, but he did. Oh well, it is what it is and at least now I get
to reclaim my lost title.
This time around, though, the fight is not a gimme for either one of us as Saturday's main event between UFC light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell (Pictures) and challenger Quinton "Rampage" Jackson is about as close to a pick ‘em fight as they come.
Sorry, Fridley, I know you had your heart dead set on making me look like a buffoon for a second straight debate … not this time, sonny. Liddell has been on fire as of late and that torrid streak will continue with a spectacular early knockout.
You've seen how Ricardo Arona (Pictures)'s head bounced off the canvas when Jackson slammed him down from the rafters? Well, that resounding thud will be replicated when your jaw hits the floor after Jackson is laid flat on his back and stiff as a board. Rampage will be completely unconscious, much like your sorry Ohio State Buckeyes were in both football and basketball after my Florida Gators savagely terrorized them for national titles.
Sorry, kid, but it looks like the lousy losing streaks will continue in Columbus and I'll prove once again that you are just a flash in the pan. Your first win over me will wind up being the highlight of your Sherdog career because from here on out, I'll never lose another debate. I forced an embarrassed Josh Gross into retirement and after winning six or seven (I lost count it was so many) in a row against Greg Savage, he's disappeared into thin air. You'll do the same and then I'll turn my powers in someone else's direction. Thanks for the memories, sucka.
Mike Fridley: Back for more, eh? I see you are begging for another thrashing by the undefeated, all-time GSD career leader in winning percentage. I'm sorry to tell you this, but Michael Vick has a better chance of becoming a spokesperson for PETA than you have of winning this debate.
You are right about one thing, Sloan. This one is no gimme. Liddell hits as hard as anyone in the light heavyweight division, and as far as experience -- well, let's just say Rampage wouldn't be the first fighter to crack under pressure while facing The Iceman once the steel gates of the Octagon have closed.
With that said, I still feel like Liddell's days as the UFC's poster boy are coming to an end. Let me ask you something. What has Chuck done to impress you enough to choose him in this showdown with Jackson?
Since getting violated by Quinton back in November of 2003, Liddell has defeated twice a very limited Tito Ortiz (Pictures), a never-was fighter with a career record of 25-30-2 in Vernon White, Babalu, a washed-up journeyman, Jeremy Horn (Pictures), who couldn't beat a top-level fighter with a stick, and two victories over the aforementioned 40-plus-year-old Couture.
Am I missing something? Where are the career-defining bouts that make Liddell the biggest name in the sport?
I'll tell you where that bout is, Sloan. It's right here, this Saturday. But it won't be Chuck's career that gets defined.
Enter Jackson. The soon-to-be most marketed man in all of mixed martial arts. This guy is going to put Chuck to sleep faster than a date with NyQuil.
I see Rampage as having the advantage in every possible area of this fight. Striking? No Problem. Clinch? Don't go there. Takedowns? Forget about it. Ground? Liddell hasn't submitted an opponent since 1999.
Back in 2003, when Jackson mopped the floor with the mohawked Californian, "Rampage" went right at Liddell with a well-executed strategy of keeping his opponent off balance and eliminating the angles that he thrives on. Expect to see more of that this weekend in Las Vegas.
When the fight is standing, Quinton will rough Chuck up with short punches and powerful uppercuts. If the "Street Soldier" can get to Liddell's body early and often, the overhead slam will come easy and sooner than later.
Once the champion is on his back and taking elbows, it'll be a new era for MMA in the U.S. In the fourth round, via TKO, Quinton Jackson (Pictures), arguably the most colorful personality in the business, will be the light heavyweight champion of the UFC.
Sorry in advance for the forthcoming awkward edition of the Mike Sloan Monday Morning Reverie.
Sloan: Well Fridley, you make some valid points, I'll give you that. But let me ask you the same question you asked me about Liddell: Who exactly has "Rampage" beaten since he thrashed Chuck the first time?
I'll give you the Arona fight and that's it. He beat a slew of mediocre Japanese and Korean cats (Minowa, Yokoi, Yoon) and was given a complete gift against Murilo Rua (Pictures). He also scored a somewhat dubious decision over Matt Lindland (Pictures), a blown-up middleweight. And let's not forget Marvin Eastman (Pictures), a gifted fighter who has never really proved his worth inside the UFC Octagon. Other than that, it was three embarrassing losses.
Chuck entered his first bout with Rampage totally distracted, under immense pressure from Dana White, focused on Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) and hampered by some injuries in training. This time Chuck is fully prepared and ready to detonate one of his neutron bombs on Rampage's platinum mouth guard.
You should learn from the mistakes that Savage made with me too many times and that is becoming cocky from a fluke win. I remember those days, actually some of the funniest (more like pathetic) attempts at trash talk and I see the same type of pattern here. What that will equate to is your first loss in the debate, followed by about four or five more, provided you actually hang around long enough.
It's a great fight, Liddell-Jackson II is, but my man Chuck will be able to strike first, second and last. Rampage will be toast in the second round once that right hand crashes onto his jaw. Jackson can still be a force in the UFC and he'll be marketed more than anybody before him, but his time will be down the road. He's still young and he can afford to get another knockout loss on his record.
Liddell's days as the champion are numbered indeed, but that's only because he'll retire eventually and not because some menacing dude with a chain around his neck beat him twice.
Ah, someday you kids will learn not to get over-confident with me in these debates.
Fridley: Rather than reply to this nonsense, I will just leave you with one piece of advice, Sloan. Have you ever seen Full Metal Jacket? Take a page out of Private Pyle's book -- lean forward and choke yourself. This exercise in humility could very well save you some embarrassment.
The Rest of the card
Josh Burkman (Pictures) vs. Karo Parisyan (Pictures)
Sloan: Without question the fight of the night. This is the one fight I am looking forward to more than anything. It might be a fight of the year candidate and it will be Burkman's biggest win thus far. Josh via split decision.
Fridley: Fight of the night? No way. Parisyan will cruise to a unanimous decision.
Terry Martin (Pictures) vs. Ivan Salaverry (Pictures)
Sloan: You'd figure that because Martin is from the motherland, Chicago, he'd be invincible. Not this time. Salaverry has way too many weapons for Martin. Ivan will rear-naked choke Martin in the third.
Fridley: Salaverry, the more dynamic of the two middleweights, should have no problem submitting Martin in the first round.
Kalib Starnes (Pictures) vs. Chris Leben (Pictures)
Sloan: Two popular Generation TUF veterans in a fight that might be worthwhile. My pick is Leben by second round stoppage; he's too powerful.
Fridley: I agree. Leben will dominate the quit-prone Canadian and force a TKO stoppage in the second frame.
Houston Alexander (Pictures) vs. Keith Jardine (Pictures)
Sloan: Come on, Jardine's been my guy for a while and I can't back away from my claim that he'll succeed Liddell as champion one day. Jardine by frightening pummeling in the second round.
Fridley: Jardine will never get past Rashad or Rampage, but he will dispatch of the Octagon newcomer without issue. Jardine by TKO in the third.
Thiago Silva (Pictures) vs. James Irvin (Pictures)
Sloan: Irvin remains one of the sport's most exciting fighters and he'll continue that trend with the knockout of the night. It'll probably come from a punch, or kick or knee or elbow or something. Either way it'll be BRUTAL.
Fridley: Irvin, while usually exciting, doesn't possess the tools to deal with a complete fighter like Thiago Silva (Pictures). The Chute Boxer by knockout in less than four minutes.
Sean Salmon (Pictures) vs. Alan Belcher (Pictures)
Sloan: I like Belcher as fighter and this should be a decent scrap. Salmon should be looking to erase the debacle of his last fight, so it'll be entertaining. I like Belcher on points, though.
Fridley: The thought of Salmon facing another fighter with devastating kicks makes me nervous. The Ohioan will avoid getting his wig split this time around, but Salmon and his portly frame will be quick to run out of gas against the active newcomer to the light heavyweight division. Belcher by TKO in the second stage.
Din Thomas (Pictures) vs. Jeremy Stephens
Sloan: Din never got the respect he deserved but maybe he will after he knocks out Stephens late in the first. Stephens is tough and a win would be huge for his career, but not this time.
Fridley: "Dinyero" is due for an explosive victory. Sorry Stephens … wrong place, wrong time. Thomas by triangle in the first round.
Carmelo Marrero (Pictures) vs. Wilson Gouveia (Pictures)
Sloan: Both guys are cool as can be and both are underappreciated. Shouldn't be too thrilling of a fight, though. I like Gouveia by decision.
Fridley: Gouveia's hands will pose a serious problem for Marrero. I've got Wilson by KO in the second period.
GSD Career Totals:
Sloan: 13-9
Savage: 8-11
Fridley: 1-0
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
GSD newcomer Mike Fridley shockingly upended Mike Sloan, the all-time wins king of the Great Sherdog Debate. Sloan gave Randy Couture (Pictures) a zero percent chance of beating then-champion Tim Sylvia (Pictures) for the heavyweight crown, and basically goaded Sherdog.com's managing editor into a scuffle. Sloan and Sylvia lost and Fridley walked home with the debate crown.
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This time around, though, the fight is not a gimme for either one of us as Saturday's main event between UFC light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell (Pictures) and challenger Quinton "Rampage" Jackson is about as close to a pick ‘em fight as they come.
We already know how badly Rampage whipped Chuck when they first met
almost four years ago and I'm here to officially name May 26
Chuck Liddell (Pictures) Day, as he'll once again leave
the Octagon with his trusty belt.
Sorry, Fridley, I know you had your heart dead set on making me look like a buffoon for a second straight debate … not this time, sonny. Liddell has been on fire as of late and that torrid streak will continue with a spectacular early knockout.
You've seen how Ricardo Arona (Pictures)'s head bounced off the canvas when Jackson slammed him down from the rafters? Well, that resounding thud will be replicated when your jaw hits the floor after Jackson is laid flat on his back and stiff as a board. Rampage will be completely unconscious, much like your sorry Ohio State Buckeyes were in both football and basketball after my Florida Gators savagely terrorized them for national titles.
Sorry, kid, but it looks like the lousy losing streaks will continue in Columbus and I'll prove once again that you are just a flash in the pan. Your first win over me will wind up being the highlight of your Sherdog career because from here on out, I'll never lose another debate. I forced an embarrassed Josh Gross into retirement and after winning six or seven (I lost count it was so many) in a row against Greg Savage, he's disappeared into thin air. You'll do the same and then I'll turn my powers in someone else's direction. Thanks for the memories, sucka.
Mike Fridley: Back for more, eh? I see you are begging for another thrashing by the undefeated, all-time GSD career leader in winning percentage. I'm sorry to tell you this, but Michael Vick has a better chance of becoming a spokesperson for PETA than you have of winning this debate.
You are right about one thing, Sloan. This one is no gimme. Liddell hits as hard as anyone in the light heavyweight division, and as far as experience -- well, let's just say Rampage wouldn't be the first fighter to crack under pressure while facing The Iceman once the steel gates of the Octagon have closed.
With that said, I still feel like Liddell's days as the UFC's poster boy are coming to an end. Let me ask you something. What has Chuck done to impress you enough to choose him in this showdown with Jackson?
Since getting violated by Quinton back in November of 2003, Liddell has defeated twice a very limited Tito Ortiz (Pictures), a never-was fighter with a career record of 25-30-2 in Vernon White, Babalu, a washed-up journeyman, Jeremy Horn (Pictures), who couldn't beat a top-level fighter with a stick, and two victories over the aforementioned 40-plus-year-old Couture.
Am I missing something? Where are the career-defining bouts that make Liddell the biggest name in the sport?
I'll tell you where that bout is, Sloan. It's right here, this Saturday. But it won't be Chuck's career that gets defined.
Enter Jackson. The soon-to-be most marketed man in all of mixed martial arts. This guy is going to put Chuck to sleep faster than a date with NyQuil.
I see Rampage as having the advantage in every possible area of this fight. Striking? No Problem. Clinch? Don't go there. Takedowns? Forget about it. Ground? Liddell hasn't submitted an opponent since 1999.
Back in 2003, when Jackson mopped the floor with the mohawked Californian, "Rampage" went right at Liddell with a well-executed strategy of keeping his opponent off balance and eliminating the angles that he thrives on. Expect to see more of that this weekend in Las Vegas.
When the fight is standing, Quinton will rough Chuck up with short punches and powerful uppercuts. If the "Street Soldier" can get to Liddell's body early and often, the overhead slam will come easy and sooner than later.
Once the champion is on his back and taking elbows, it'll be a new era for MMA in the U.S. In the fourth round, via TKO, Quinton Jackson (Pictures), arguably the most colorful personality in the business, will be the light heavyweight champion of the UFC.
Sorry in advance for the forthcoming awkward edition of the Mike Sloan Monday Morning Reverie.
Sloan: Well Fridley, you make some valid points, I'll give you that. But let me ask you the same question you asked me about Liddell: Who exactly has "Rampage" beaten since he thrashed Chuck the first time?
I'll give you the Arona fight and that's it. He beat a slew of mediocre Japanese and Korean cats (Minowa, Yokoi, Yoon) and was given a complete gift against Murilo Rua (Pictures). He also scored a somewhat dubious decision over Matt Lindland (Pictures), a blown-up middleweight. And let's not forget Marvin Eastman (Pictures), a gifted fighter who has never really proved his worth inside the UFC Octagon. Other than that, it was three embarrassing losses.
Chuck entered his first bout with Rampage totally distracted, under immense pressure from Dana White, focused on Wanderlei Silva (Pictures) and hampered by some injuries in training. This time Chuck is fully prepared and ready to detonate one of his neutron bombs on Rampage's platinum mouth guard.
You should learn from the mistakes that Savage made with me too many times and that is becoming cocky from a fluke win. I remember those days, actually some of the funniest (more like pathetic) attempts at trash talk and I see the same type of pattern here. What that will equate to is your first loss in the debate, followed by about four or five more, provided you actually hang around long enough.
It's a great fight, Liddell-Jackson II is, but my man Chuck will be able to strike first, second and last. Rampage will be toast in the second round once that right hand crashes onto his jaw. Jackson can still be a force in the UFC and he'll be marketed more than anybody before him, but his time will be down the road. He's still young and he can afford to get another knockout loss on his record.
Liddell's days as the champion are numbered indeed, but that's only because he'll retire eventually and not because some menacing dude with a chain around his neck beat him twice.
Ah, someday you kids will learn not to get over-confident with me in these debates.
Fridley: Rather than reply to this nonsense, I will just leave you with one piece of advice, Sloan. Have you ever seen Full Metal Jacket? Take a page out of Private Pyle's book -- lean forward and choke yourself. This exercise in humility could very well save you some embarrassment.
The Rest of the card
Josh Burkman (Pictures) vs. Karo Parisyan (Pictures)
Sloan: Without question the fight of the night. This is the one fight I am looking forward to more than anything. It might be a fight of the year candidate and it will be Burkman's biggest win thus far. Josh via split decision.
Fridley: Fight of the night? No way. Parisyan will cruise to a unanimous decision.
Terry Martin (Pictures) vs. Ivan Salaverry (Pictures)
Sloan: You'd figure that because Martin is from the motherland, Chicago, he'd be invincible. Not this time. Salaverry has way too many weapons for Martin. Ivan will rear-naked choke Martin in the third.
Fridley: Salaverry, the more dynamic of the two middleweights, should have no problem submitting Martin in the first round.
Kalib Starnes (Pictures) vs. Chris Leben (Pictures)
Sloan: Two popular Generation TUF veterans in a fight that might be worthwhile. My pick is Leben by second round stoppage; he's too powerful.
Fridley: I agree. Leben will dominate the quit-prone Canadian and force a TKO stoppage in the second frame.
Houston Alexander (Pictures) vs. Keith Jardine (Pictures)
Sloan: Come on, Jardine's been my guy for a while and I can't back away from my claim that he'll succeed Liddell as champion one day. Jardine by frightening pummeling in the second round.
Fridley: Jardine will never get past Rashad or Rampage, but he will dispatch of the Octagon newcomer without issue. Jardine by TKO in the third.
Thiago Silva (Pictures) vs. James Irvin (Pictures)
Sloan: Irvin remains one of the sport's most exciting fighters and he'll continue that trend with the knockout of the night. It'll probably come from a punch, or kick or knee or elbow or something. Either way it'll be BRUTAL.
Fridley: Irvin, while usually exciting, doesn't possess the tools to deal with a complete fighter like Thiago Silva (Pictures). The Chute Boxer by knockout in less than four minutes.
Sean Salmon (Pictures) vs. Alan Belcher (Pictures)
Sloan: I like Belcher as fighter and this should be a decent scrap. Salmon should be looking to erase the debacle of his last fight, so it'll be entertaining. I like Belcher on points, though.
Fridley: The thought of Salmon facing another fighter with devastating kicks makes me nervous. The Ohioan will avoid getting his wig split this time around, but Salmon and his portly frame will be quick to run out of gas against the active newcomer to the light heavyweight division. Belcher by TKO in the second stage.
Din Thomas (Pictures) vs. Jeremy Stephens
Sloan: Din never got the respect he deserved but maybe he will after he knocks out Stephens late in the first. Stephens is tough and a win would be huge for his career, but not this time.
Fridley: "Dinyero" is due for an explosive victory. Sorry Stephens … wrong place, wrong time. Thomas by triangle in the first round.
Carmelo Marrero (Pictures) vs. Wilson Gouveia (Pictures)
Sloan: Both guys are cool as can be and both are underappreciated. Shouldn't be too thrilling of a fight, though. I like Gouveia by decision.
Fridley: Gouveia's hands will pose a serious problem for Marrero. I've got Wilson by KO in the second period.
GSD Career Totals:
Sloan: 13-9
Savage: 8-11
Fridley: 1-0
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
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